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	<title>Comments on: Comic Update: Redefining Resolved</title>
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	<link>http://www.cssquirrel.com/2009/10/06/comic-update-redefining-resolved/</link>
	<description>One nut's look at the world of web design</description>
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		<title>By: Laura</title>
		<link>http://www.cssquirrel.com/2009/10/06/comic-update-redefining-resolved/comment-page-1/#comment-27907</link>
		<dc:creator>Laura</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Oct 2009 11:43:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cssquirrel.com/?p=461#comment-27907</guid>
		<description>Update:

A new HTML5 Working Group Decision Policy [1] in WG discussion [2].

[1] http://dev.w3.org/html5/decision-policy/decision-policy.html
[2] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2009Oct/0189.html</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Update:</p>
<p>A new HTML5 Working Group Decision Policy [1] in WG discussion [2].</p>
<p>[1] <a href="http://dev.w3.org/html5/decision-policy/decision-policy.html" rel="nofollow">http://dev.w3.org/html5/decision-policy/decision-policy.html</a><br />
[2] <a href="http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2009Oct/0189.html" rel="nofollow">http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2009Oct/0189.html</a></p>
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		<title>By: Toby Inkster</title>
		<link>http://www.cssquirrel.com/2009/10/06/comic-update-redefining-resolved/comment-page-1/#comment-27901</link>
		<dc:creator>Toby Inkster</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Oct 2009 08:35:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cssquirrel.com/?p=461#comment-27901</guid>
		<description>The &quot;irony mark&quot;:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irony_mark</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The &#8220;irony mark&#8221;:</p>
<p><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irony_mark" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irony_mark</a></p>
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		<title>By: Stéphane Deschamps</title>
		<link>http://www.cssquirrel.com/2009/10/06/comic-update-redefining-resolved/comment-page-1/#comment-27881</link>
		<dc:creator>Stéphane Deschamps</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Oct 2009 19:23:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cssquirrel.com/?p=461#comment-27881</guid>
		<description>Actually that&#039;s good that native-english people explain their views on that much better than us foreigners can. Thanks Kyle. And thanks John Foliot for explicitly restating stuff.

Me? I love @summary. I don&#039;t mind if it&#039;s not mandatory, but it&#039;s useful when needed.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Actually that&#8217;s good that native-english people explain their views on that much better than us foreigners can. Thanks Kyle. And thanks John Foliot for explicitly restating stuff.</p>
<p>Me? I love @summary. I don&#8217;t mind if it&#8217;s not mandatory, but it&#8217;s useful when needed.</p>
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		<title>By: Rhyaniwyn</title>
		<link>http://www.cssquirrel.com/2009/10/06/comic-update-redefining-resolved/comment-page-1/#comment-27878</link>
		<dc:creator>Rhyaniwyn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Oct 2009 18:14:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cssquirrel.com/?p=461#comment-27878</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t want to &quot;diss&quot; HTML5.  There&#039;s plenty to like.  But when it comes down to actually writing whole sites in it, there are little details I disagree with.  I know of only a few right now (some were fixed), but I anticipate that I will run into a couple more once I start really using it.

There&#039;s been too much bias and lack of rigor in the process.  It&#039;s not so much that I think my opinions definitely right.  It&#039;s that I&#039;m not actually very difficult to persuade.  There are decisions in the HTML5 spec that I don&#039;t agree with and the reason behind which (where known) I don&#039;t find persuasive.

Since I refuse to subject myself to the hostility of the mailing list (it&#039;s no great loss -- I&#039;m no genius and most of my thoughts have been previously expressed by others), what else am I to do? I could stick with XHTML 1 or HTML 4 for the next 10 years until another spec comes along.  But I imagine I&#039;ll be using HTML5 at least some of the time. 

With that thought in mind I&#039;ve formed a tentative plan.  For many years I&#039;ve made a point to ensure that my websites validate.  With HTML5 I suspect I&#039;ll use validation as I did in my early days... to catch typos.  I&#039;ll ignore the spec where I disagree with it.

It&#039;s a weird and guilty feeling.  There are so many good reasons to follow standards, even when they aren&#039;t entirely satisfactory.  But I&#039;m not going to adhere to any rule that, in my considered opinion, is genuinely silly.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t want to &#8220;diss&#8221; HTML5.  There&#8217;s plenty to like.  But when it comes down to actually writing whole sites in it, there are little details I disagree with.  I know of only a few right now (some were fixed), but I anticipate that I will run into a couple more once I start really using it.</p>
<p>There&#8217;s been too much bias and lack of rigor in the process.  It&#8217;s not so much that I think my opinions definitely right.  It&#8217;s that I&#8217;m not actually very difficult to persuade.  There are decisions in the HTML5 spec that I don&#8217;t agree with and the reason behind which (where known) I don&#8217;t find persuasive.</p>
<p>Since I refuse to subject myself to the hostility of the mailing list (it&#8217;s no great loss &#8212; I&#8217;m no genius and most of my thoughts have been previously expressed by others), what else am I to do? I could stick with XHTML 1 or HTML 4 for the next 10 years until another spec comes along.  But I imagine I&#8217;ll be using HTML5 at least some of the time. </p>
<p>With that thought in mind I&#8217;ve formed a tentative plan.  For many years I&#8217;ve made a point to ensure that my websites validate.  With HTML5 I suspect I&#8217;ll use validation as I did in my early days&#8230; to catch typos.  I&#8217;ll ignore the spec where I disagree with it.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s a weird and guilty feeling.  There are so many good reasons to follow standards, even when they aren&#8217;t entirely satisfactory.  But I&#8217;m not going to adhere to any rule that, in my considered opinion, is genuinely silly.</p>
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		<title>By: John Foliot</title>
		<link>http://www.cssquirrel.com/2009/10/06/comic-update-redefining-resolved/comment-page-1/#comment-27877</link>
		<dc:creator>John Foliot</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Oct 2009 17:45:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cssquirrel.com/?p=461#comment-27877</guid>
		<description>To be very clear, at http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=7633#c1 Ian Hixson states &quot;The attribute, even though conforming, is strongly discouraged, which is why there&#039;s no example.&quot;

Discouraged by whom?  Certainly not the W3C (find me proof of that assertion), nor, more importantly, W3C&#039;s Web Accessibility Initiative, where, in WCAG 2 one of the specifically stated means of achieving Success Criteria is to use the summary attribute on tables (http://www.w3.org/TR/2008/NOTE-WCAG20-TECHS-20081211/H73)

*NONE* of the other suggestions within the Draft HTML5 spec deliver the same functionality that @summary delivers, despite Hixie&#039;s personal interpretation. 

Currently Cynthia Shelley (Microsoft) is working on behalf of the WAI Protocols and Formats Working Group to craft an appropriate &#039;message&#039; to attach to the @summary attribute, including a useful and accurate example (provided by Wendy Chisholm).  Cynthia reported to the HTML WG on Sept 14th with a useful interim update (http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2009Sep/0553.html), so if Ian &quot;WONTFIX&quot; he should step aside and let others &quot;FIX&quot; - wishful thinking on his behalf is not how Standards should be written.

Stay tuned for more...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To be very clear, at <a href="http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=7633#c1" rel="nofollow">http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=7633#c1</a> Ian Hixson states &#8220;The attribute, even though conforming, is strongly discouraged, which is why there&#8217;s no example.&#8221;</p>
<p>Discouraged by whom?  Certainly not the W3C (find me proof of that assertion), nor, more importantly, W3C&#8217;s Web Accessibility Initiative, where, in WCAG 2 one of the specifically stated means of achieving Success Criteria is to use the summary attribute on tables (<a href="http://www.w3.org/TR/2008/NOTE-WCAG20-TECHS-20081211/H73" rel="nofollow">http://www.w3.org/TR/2008/NOTE-WCAG20-TECHS-20081211/H73</a>)</p>
<p>*NONE* of the other suggestions within the Draft HTML5 spec deliver the same functionality that @summary delivers, despite Hixie&#8217;s personal interpretation. </p>
<p>Currently Cynthia Shelley (Microsoft) is working on behalf of the WAI Protocols and Formats Working Group to craft an appropriate &#8216;message&#8217; to attach to the @summary attribute, including a useful and accurate example (provided by Wendy Chisholm).  Cynthia reported to the HTML WG on Sept 14th with a useful interim update (<a href="http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2009Sep/0553.html" rel="nofollow">http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2009Sep/0553.html</a>), so if Ian &#8220;WONTFIX&#8221; he should step aside and let others &#8220;FIX&#8221; &#8211; wishful thinking on his behalf is not how Standards should be written.</p>
<p>Stay tuned for more&#8230;</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Laura</title>
		<link>http://www.cssquirrel.com/2009/10/06/comic-update-redefining-resolved/comment-page-1/#comment-27876</link>
		<dc:creator>Laura</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Oct 2009 17:37:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cssquirrel.com/?p=461#comment-27876</guid>
		<description>This type of thing has happen previously. A year and a half ago the editor closed an HTML tracker issue without it being resolved.
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2008Apr/0222.html</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This type of thing has happen previously. A year and a half ago the editor closed an HTML tracker issue without it being resolved.<br />
<a href="http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2008Apr/0222.html" rel="nofollow">http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2008Apr/0222.html</a></p>
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		<title>By: Laura Carlson (lauracarlson) 's status on Tuesday, 06-Oct-09 17:21:19 UTC - Identi.ca</title>
		<link>http://www.cssquirrel.com/2009/10/06/comic-update-redefining-resolved/comment-page-1/#comment-27875</link>
		<dc:creator>Laura Carlson (lauracarlson) 's status on Tuesday, 06-Oct-09 17:21:19 UTC - Identi.ca</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Oct 2009 17:21:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cssquirrel.com/?p=461#comment-27875</guid>
		<description>[...]  http://www.cssquirrel.com/2009/10/06/comic-update-redefining-resolved/  [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...]  <a href="http://www.cssquirrel.com/2009/10/06/comic-update-redefining-resolved/" rel="nofollow">http://www.cssquirrel.com/2009/10/06/comic-update-redefining-resolved/</a>  [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Kyle Weems</title>
		<link>http://www.cssquirrel.com/2009/10/06/comic-update-redefining-resolved/comment-page-1/#comment-27874</link>
		<dc:creator>Kyle Weems</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Oct 2009 17:14:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cssquirrel.com/?p=461#comment-27874</guid>
		<description>I saw that, and marveled at that claim. Either it is obsolete, or it is not. It&#039;s an attribute, not a subatomic particle in some sort of quantum flux.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I saw that, and marveled at that claim. Either it is obsolete, or it is not. It&#8217;s an attribute, not a subatomic particle in some sort of quantum flux.</p>
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		<title>By: Julian Reschke</title>
		<link>http://www.cssquirrel.com/2009/10/06/comic-update-redefining-resolved/comment-page-1/#comment-27873</link>
		<dc:creator>Julian Reschke</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Oct 2009 16:51:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cssquirrel.com/?p=461#comment-27873</guid>
		<description>My favorite is claiming &quot;it&#039;s not obsolete&quot; when it appears under &quot;Warnings for obsolete but conforming features&quot; features.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My favorite is claiming &#8220;it&#8217;s not obsolete&#8221; when it appears under &#8220;Warnings for obsolete but conforming features&#8221; features.</p>
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